Left-wing anti-Semitism dispute | "An army is an army is an army"

Ms. König-Preuss, there are few members of your party who have been as vehemently pro-Israel for as long as you have. You are also the chairwoman of the Friends of Israel group in the Thuringian State Parliament...

… together with Andreas Bühl from the CDU.

And so, when you look at the people who are being killed in Gaza by Israeli shelling, who are starving: what does that do to you?

Seeing this is frightening, truly frightening. These images make me sad, angry, but above all, they scare me. I know people living here in Thuringia who lost 50 relatives in the Gaza Strip. Hatred can, of course, arise from such a situation.

Hatred of Israel?

Yes, hatred of Israel. And that scares me, because this hatred exists among some Israelis as well – massively intensified by October 7th. This can feed the feeling on both sides – among Palestinians and Israelis – that there is nothing between them but violence. Sometimes it's all so bad that I don't even have the words to describe it. I have a very good friend in Israel, whom I spoke to on the phone shortly after the Hamas terror attack on October 7th. He told me two things back then: First, that he was volunteering for the Israeli army. Second, and I'll never forget this sentence: "Katharina, don't just worry about us, worry about the Palestinians too, about what will soon happen in the Gaza Strip!" This from the mouth of a rather left-wing Israeli who already suspected back then how severe this Israeli counterattack would be... That was really harsh. It gives me a bit of hope to see how many people in Israel are taking to the streets demanding the return of the hostages and protesting against the war. And that there are also protests in Gaza against the war and against Hamas.

But then why hasn't your support for Israel diminished in recent months? It's now obvious, for example, that some Israeli soldiers are behaving in ways that the supposedly most moral army in the world would never tolerate.

Well, I never believed that the IDF…

… the Israeli Defense Forces, the Israeli armed forces…

...is the most morally perfect army in the world. They do some things better than other armies, no question. But an army is an army is an army. Even there, things happen out of hatred, anger, and a desire for revenge that are absolutely wrong. But that doesn't mean that my conviction to stand up for Israel has to suffer as a result.

Why not?

My strong support for Israel has nothing to do with the way Israel wages war or with the IDF. I am simply deeply convinced that Israel is necessary as a homeland and safe place for Jews, regardless of their religious affiliation. For me personally, this is compounded by the fact that I lived in Israel for a year and a half, which is one of the reasons why I feel so connected to this beautiful country.

They are regularly accused of being blind to the suffering of the Palestinians.

I'm not blind to the suffering of the Palestinians. I see the destruction, the grief, and the despair. My godchild lives in the West Bank, and I have friends in the Palestinian territories—I hear what's happening from them, too. But I refuse to make a simple, camp-based mentality out of it. Solidarity with Israel and empathy with Palestinians are not mutually exclusive. You can see the suffering on both sides. I think the people who accuse me of this often don't even want to listen; they're just trying to paint me into a corner.

In your view, where is the line between legitimate criticism of the State of Israel and anti-Semitism?

In my view, one can and should criticize Israel just like any other state. It becomes antisemitic when someone questions Israel's right to exist, applies standards to Israel that aren't applied to other states, or equates what the State of Israel or the government of Benjamin Netanyahu does with what Jews supposedly do. You see: It's quite simple. For me, the question is more why so many people fail to draw this line.

What do you mean?

For example, the accusation of genocide – that's been around quite a bit right now. And to be honest, I find that difficult. Because, legally, it's an incredibly harsh term. It's not just about violence or war crimes, but about a deliberate intent to destroy – and that, despite all the justifiable criticism of Israel's actions, simply hasn't been proven yet.

Jewish genocide researchers like Omer Bartov have also identified factors that, in their view, substantiate the International Criminal Court's findings so far and the accusation of genocide. And then there's the Israeli government's announcement to "concentrate" and "relocate" all Gaza residents to a camp in Rafah. Something like that can't be ignored...

Why am I accused of ignorance because I don't speak of "genocide" and advocate for a nuanced debate?

By which you imply that all these debates are motivated by anti-Semitic motives...

The suspicion is at least often obvious. Especially when Israel is demonized rather than criticized. I ask myself: is this still a matter of outrage about what is happening in Gaza, or is it more a matter of projection? In Germany in particular, we have to be careful. Anti-Semitic attacks are on the rise. Racism is on the rise. And I would like to point out a very practical point that I often find lost in the German and European debate: Yes, of course this war must end. And then: What happens next? What should Israel do? The country that many of its neighbors have threatened with annihilation since its founding, and that emerged from the experience of annihilation, from the ashes of Auschwitz. What options does this country have to ensure its survival? Some of the discussions about Israel that take place here in Germany are too detached for me. If I'm sitting in a bunker because rockets are being fired at me, my opportunities to talk about international law are limited.

The debates you refer to have been going on for decades. But nowhere are they currently being discussed as controversially as on the political left. At a federal party conference, a narrow majority of delegates endorsed the Jerusalem Declaration. Why is this such a controversial issue, especially for leftists?

The decision was a mistake, a very big mistake. This becomes clear when you consider that this was essentially an intervention in an academic debate by a party conference resolution. I mean, folks! Party conferences don't adopt academic definitions—quite apart from the fact that the party thereby ignored how most Jews understand antisemitism. The majority supports the definition of the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance. That the Left, of all parties—which always claims to consider the perspective of those affected—dared to commit to a definition of antisemitism over their heads is unacceptable. Imagine if the Left had committed to a definition of racism without including those affected by racism...

There are also Jewish scholars who signed the Jerusalem Declaration. So with which Jews should there have been more consultations?

I doubt that, for example, the Central Council of Jews or even Jewish communities were consulted about this beforehand. I've already said it: The majority of Jews believe the IHRA is the right one. And these people weren't adequately consulted before the party conference's decision.

When you hear you talk like that, you might doubt that The Left is still your party.

To be honest: I'm currently asking myself very intensely where I still feel at home politically. I really enjoy discussing things with people who have a different position than me. But I have limits. And one of these limits is reached when the perspectives of Jews are not taken seriously or are brushed aside. The fact that I draw this line does not at all exclude me from perceiving the perspectives of Palestinians. Quite the opposite. But this black-and-white thinking on all sides really gets on my nerves. There's too little political analysis in it for me, too little historical knowledge, and far too much smearing about TikTok videos, which have so many people thinking they've become Middle East experts in a very short space of time.

Do the many new members of the Left help with this internal party dispute?

It will certainly be a challenge to find a clear position with so many new members, regardless of which ones they are; it's been the case in the past. But I think it's very important that we make it absolutely clear that, as a left-wing party, we naturally stand with Jews and thus also with their state. Anything else would mean using statements about antisemitism as a fig leaf.

That would no longer be your party?

No, that would no longer be my party.